As I'm a whole 3 weeks new to letterboxing, I have to agree. At this
point I just cannot understand why people would worry about anything
BUT letterboxing. I heard from another boxer this weekend some of
the drama about the whole LBworld and lBna thing, and its kind of
silly if you ask me. More letterboxing, less drama ;)

At least alot of you have the Monster Mash to think about, I'm still
not sure if Im going :(

Jeff

P0 F25 X1 HH1 <---- And thats after my letterboxing start date of
9/5/04 :)


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Armadillo Jo
wrote:
> Am I alone in the feeling that the obviously political
> drama unfolding on this list is of the "who cares"
> variety? Honestly, I don't care what personal
> vendettas people have with a bunch of strangers that
> they have probably never met. Please, this is worse
> than 7th grade.
>
> All I care about is the subject of letterboxing. End
> of story. Please post more about letterboxing and less
> about the sociological melodrama of some website that
> I have never visited.
>
> I get moderately annoyed by many things on this board,
> especially people who don't read all of the posts in
> their mailbox before posting 6 or 7 replies to various
> posts...but hey...I don't get bent out of shape about
> it! There will always be people that rub you the wrong
> way. Get over it. Some people (like the racist poster
> today) should be banned, some shouldn't.
>
> If more people were talking about letterboxing and
> less about what drama is unfolding elsewhere....this
> list would be great. So how about we all begin
> policing ourselves...if it's about letterboxing
> (stamps, boxes, clues, etc) post it, if it's not (ie:
> posts about letterboxers personally), let's not post
> it.
>
> Whaddya say?
> --Armadillo Jo

I 100% agree. Now back to letterboxing. :)
-ccl

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Armadillo Jo
wrote:
> Am I alone in the feeling that the obviously political
> drama unfolding on this list is of the "who cares"
> variety? Honestly, I don't care what personal
> vendettas people have with a bunch of strangers that
> they have probably never met. Please, this is worse
> than 7th grade.
>
> All I care about is the subject of letterboxing. End
> of story. Please post more about letterboxing and less
> about the sociological melodrama of some website that
> I have never visited.
>
> I get moderately annoyed by many things on this board,
> especially people who don't read all of the posts in
> their mailbox before posting 6 or 7 replies to various
> posts...but hey...I don't get bent out of shape about
> it! There will always be people that rub you the wrong
> way. Get over it. Some people (like the racist poster
> today) should be banned, some shouldn't.
>
> If more people were talking about letterboxing and
> less about what drama is unfolding elsewhere....this
> list would be great. So how about we all begin
> policing ourselves...if it's about letterboxing
> (stamps, boxes, clues, etc) post it, if it's not (ie:
> posts about letterboxers personally), let's not post
> it.
>
> Whaddya say?
> --Armadillo Jo

I agree that it is nice when people stick to the subject of
letterboxing. Just remember you might feel differently if you were
the one banned (for trying to keep posts nice) or you were the one
who had their website destroyed (on more than one occasion). There
are some not so nice people out there that don't care who they
hurt.


Just my 2 cents.

Jayme


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Armadillo Jo
wrote:
> Am I alone in the feeling that the obviously political
> drama unfolding on this list is of the "who cares"
> variety? Honestly, I don't care what personal
> vendettas people have with a bunch of strangers that
> they have probably never met. Please, this is worse
> than 7th grade.
>
> All I care about is the subject of letterboxing. End
> of story. Please post more about letterboxing and less
> about the sociological melodrama of some website that
> I have never visited.
>
> I get moderately annoyed by many things on this board,
> especially people who don't read all of the posts in
> their mailbox before posting 6 or 7 replies to various
> posts...but hey...I don't get bent out of shape about
> it! There will always be people that rub you the wrong
> way. Get over it. Some people (like the racist poster
> today) should be banned, some shouldn't.
>
> If more people were talking about letterboxing and
> less about what drama is unfolding elsewhere....this
> list would be great. So how about we all begin
> policing ourselves...if it's about letterboxing
> (stamps, boxes, clues, etc) post it, if it's not (ie:
> posts about letterboxers personally), let's not post
> it.
>
> Whaddya say?
> --Armadillo Jo

I've been away, so just a response about all this...Reporting on a vicious hacking crime IS highly related to letterboxing, because it is about a letterboxing website which many people on here were familiar with. Showing that you don't care about someone's hard work being destroyed only makes other people who do care feel like stepping up to defend it and show they care even more. I don't know what happened, and I don't have personal knowledge of all these past events or the people involved, but I've been around here long enough to have heard about the nature of the threats WOL received, and plenty of others here have known about them too. So it wasn't as if people just started pointing fingers on here out of the blue. There was some reason to think things were a bit fishy and many of us had already heard about it. I believe people are innocent until proven guilty, and I and most people here would not have any way of shedding much light on the subject of who is responsible. So I am not going to assume anything, nor do I know for sure that a regular old hacker (non-letterboxer) couldn't have left those threats as well, nor do I know how to verify what the threats said. But I just wanted to clarify that there certainly was a whole lot of room for wondering about it, and I don't think anyone was trying to be malicious by mentioning the fishiness, just concerned-- especially since it has happened again.

Perhaps it would be a good idea, if someone is going to be banned from posting, for the moderator(s) to simply say something about it so that the group doesn't have to wonder what's going on. (yes, I know this has sometimes happened, but not always) I had wondered for awhile what happened to Steve, but wasn't sure how to ask. I don't have much online time to go on other websites. Also it would be good to state the rules on this list now and then so people who don't go to the actual Yahoo site can be reminded of them. I would like to have "cross-posting" and its problems explained. I understand that it means posting the same thing on different sites, but I'm not clear about why it's a problem, unless just because of volume. About mentioning one's own website, or one's friend's website...well, this happens all the time on this list, and frequently! Often those posts are reponses to questions about something that can be researched on another site.

It doesn't bother me that someone mentions their own site-- it's not as if many of them are making money by having visitors to their site. It appears that for some reason, certain websites are viewed as a threat to this list, while others are not. Not having the broad view or all the history, I don't understand the threat. Does it really matter how many people use which sites? It seems that what got some people upset here is that they sensed inequality in how some "rule-breakers" have been treated, while others are above reproach. If there are degrees of offense, it sounds to me like they need to be stated clearly for people to see them as fair, and if someone is banned, state what rule(s) they broke. I appreciate the moderators of any site a lot, and can't even imagine the work. I'm just trying to say what makes the moderators' image get tarnished and why people have a hard time figuring out whether an action was fair. I don't plan to say anything else about this stuff unless it's to answer questions.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, sorry, but there is no "you people" (no conspiracy) and the people who've been talking here come from all over the map. You're quite right, no one HAS to explain anything, and yes, the owners and moderators can do as they see fit. Maybe I'd have done the same thing(s) had I been a moderator. I was only TRYING to say that a little more communication in an up-front and timely fashion from the moderators (whom I do greatly respect) especially when someone is disciplined in some way, just MIGHT nip some of the conjecturing and blame and false assumptions in the bud. It MIGHT also help the rest understand the etiquette better, esp. if they are not on other talk-lists, and know the truth about why someone disappeared. Brian, if you think it's better that people stay unsure about what happened and guess amongst themselves instead, that's ok--I doubt if I'm going to change your mind so I won't argue about it. I'm simply saying if you're hearing people trying to figure it all out and it drives you crazy, there may be at least a partial solution. And there at least shouldn't be any surprise that people are going to try to figure it out, especially in the absence of what they might feel is a lack of info. at times. I can only imagine the time it takes to run these lists, so maybe that is asking too much, I really don't know.

Contrary to popular opinion, I've never met or spoken with Steve, and I've only visited WoL once or twice, simply because I can't tie up phone lines with surfing at this time. I write on this list offline, then send it. I've rarely been on websites often enough to become a "fan". I've also never communicated with Pandora or for that matter, any other letterboxers except for about 7 people that I met once. But I still wondered what happened there. All I know is that no matter how we feel about anyone personally, crime is crime and should be treated as such. No one "deserves" to be hacked, and only the hacker is at fault, no matter how vulnerable the site or anything else. If I leave my door open and get robbed, the robber is still to blame, no matter what a jerk I am. So I hope I don't hear anything else like that here, because that "he had it coming to him" mentality is another thing that makes people conjecture even more. It sounds juvenile, and two wrongs don't make a right. You're right, my opinion may not matter. If it doesn't, I guess I should sign off. Maybe some people's opinions matter more than others. If so, what a great way to build community. I'm sorry if I was sounding like I mattered or my thoughts mattered. I've only been trying to figure it all out, just like a lot of others. Signed--- the clueless conspiracy, otherwise known as lunaryakketyact.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 9/29/2004 2:28:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
annalisa@fast.net writes:

You're right, my opinion may not matter. If it doesn't, I guess I should
sign off. Maybe some people's opinions matter more than others. If so, what a
great way to build community. I'm sorry if I was sounding like I mattered
or my thoughts mattered.


I have to admit that one comment bothered me when it was said.... Everyone's
opinion does and should matter whether we agree with it or not. There are
people behind these words on the screen and people have feelings as well as
certain rights if they live in America. The Constitution is a wonderful thing,
we have men and woman dying almost every day defending our rights, it's our job
to respect each others right as Americans. I'm only talking about that
particular comment, I am not talking about anything that happened before or after
it, the way it was said just bothered me. OK, I'll shut up now but I needed
my opinion heard.



You've got to do your own growing, no matter how tall your grandfather was.
~ Irish Proverb


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Where's Lori the Good Dragon when you need her? I notice the moon is
full and it seems to bring out grumpy old men. Hmmm - Grumpy Old
Man in the Moon - sounds like a...

Happy hunting,
Zed

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Brian "
wrote:
>
> Why do feel that we should have to explain anything to you? This
> group is owned by an individual who can do as he pleases. No
> explanation is needed for you or anybody else.

Did we decide if the Grumpy Old man was better suited to be a
Hitchhiker brought to a gathering or a PLB sent to a "PLB black hole"?

L-Bug

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "zed_boxing"
wrote:
> Where's Lori the Good Dragon when you need her? I notice the moon
is
> full and it seems to bring out grumpy old men. Hmmm - Grumpy Old
> Man in the Moon - sounds like a...
>
> Happy hunting,
> Zed
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Brian "
> wrote:
> >
> > Why do feel that we should have to explain anything to you? This
> > group is owned by an individual who can do as he pleases. No
> > explanation is needed for you or anybody else.